cron-web.org

[A1CR]

[posted on behalf of CRON4healthyfuture; 2002-07-17]

I know that you get a kick out of reading about speculation concerning
fasting, crbasic, as do I, and that is one of the reasons I like to post
things here: to see what you think. We are basically some of the only
active proponents of fasting benefits! We may end up being wrong in the
end, but, I haven't seen much that would indicate that things look so
dismal for fasting presently. And a lot of the original research into
caloric restriction was done in the every-other-day feeding paradigm
anyway, so we aren't too far from the original research base anyways.

Granted, everyone has their own individualistic style of CR, and clearly
the deprivation of calories itself is what is driving the process. But I
am very interested in whether or not modifying the temporal characteristics
of this deprivation can amplify the observed effects or not. If it is a
nonlinear process, then things could get very interesting.

You are absolutely right about hunger. I have noticed that hunger
*completely* dissipates just as one begins to pass the 24-hour mark, as one
finally steps off the insulinemic roller coaster. In fact, it is almost
alarming to be *so* removed from hunger during this time, because we have
already been calorically restricting for so long that we can't have that
much reserve left. I could probably go indefinitely without food after
that 24-hour-mark, from a strictly psychological point of view. Of course
I don't attempt to do so, as evidenced by the fact that I am still alive to
post my musings on the subject.

Seriously, though, if one dissociates from food for a short period of time,
then one really doesn't miss it, as you pointed out. I find it much more
difficult to actually put up with the contrivance of preparing some
fussy "pseudomeal" constantly than to just grab some diet sodas and
go "hardcore CR" for a while. Another reason I do it that way is because
what little substantive research there is on the subject have the rats/mice
eating ZERO calories that fasting day, so I often try to, as closely as I
can, replicate that. If the effects of fasting are nonlinear, then I want
to augment the stress response as much as possible, I would think. But I
still take my supplements as well as drink some electrolytes. And I never
drink a lot of just plain water, because one of the biggest risks during
fasting would be an electrolyte disturbance.

But the moment I finally start assembling my break-"fast" meal (not
necessarily in the morning, mind you), I start getting all hungry again,
and when I finally get it together I typically start downing food like some
sort of crazed escaped war prisoner.

The hunger comes full force, and for a short period of time, during
the "refeeding" phase, I experience the regular sensations of hunger as my
hypothalamus shows me who is boss again.

My practice of CR is not as rigorous as some of you guys out there, and
sometimes I "fail" to step off the insulinemic roller coaster again at the
appointed time, and I keep eating like the crazed war prisoner for too
long. (There is probably a lot of truth in the observations found in the
literature posted by Alan Pater that binge/fasting can induce binge eating
disorders)

But usually I sober up eventually and go hardcore once again. I know that
the calorie purists may say that this practice of CR is suboptimal, but
nobody's perfect.

If weight/BMI can used as a very rough guide to CR, then I am still
significantly below my "set point", whatever that is worth.

I am gradually going to get more and more strictive about things though, in
the near future. Right now I am still learning the ropes. Or at least
that is the rationale I typically have to employ when coping with my
despondent "post-extended-binge" mental state.